Episode 8 Transcript: Navigating Vulnerability Hangovers as a Therapist

The Unmasked Therapist Podcast | Kim Rippy, LPC & Kaitlyn Steel, LMFT

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Opening Reflection: The Vulnerability Hangover

The next day I woke up with this pit in my stomach and immediately I started overthinking. Well, not overthinking, overanalyzing. I started remembering this person’s face when I said this, and I started thinking about how the rest of the conversation when I just really fell into my anxious thinking that typically comes up when I’m not feeling very centered. Welcome to the Unmasked Therapist Podcast, the show where we explore the heart of therapy, authenticity, and connection. We are therapists from Keystone Therapy Group, located in Northern Virginia.

In each episode, we’ll share stories, insights, and conversations about what it means to show up authentically for our clients, for each other, and for ourselves. Whether you’re a new therapist or a seasoned therapist, we’re

Welcome to The Unmasked Therapist

glad you’re here. Hi everyone, welcome back to the Unmasked Therapist Podcast where your host Kim Rippy, licensed professional counselor and Kaitlyn Steel, licensed marriage and family therapist. Last episode we talked a lot about self disclosure and authenticity and how disclosing your own personal experiences or current events impacts your work with clients, how to do it safely, how to do it effectively, and how to do it in a way that builds connection that allows your client to heal throughout that process.

We talked about the do’s, we talked about the don’ts. So if you missed that episode, go back, listen to that one and then come back to this one because today we’re going to piggyback off that and we’re going to talk about what happens when you have a vulnerability hangover. When we self disclose with our clients, we are being vulnerable about our own personal experiences. Vulnerability is again the foundation of authenticity. So when we are vulnerable with them, especially time and time again, client back-to-back, right?

Or maybe, again, something was really big for you and you disclose it to a client and it was safe, it was ethical, it was really impactful for the client, but maybe it was a really big thing for you to share. Yeah. We have something called a vulnerability hangover, and I think it’s so important for us that we’re going to talk about what is a vulnerability hangover? How do you recognize you have it, what to do with it, and how does it impact your work with a client.

What Is a Vulnerability Hangover?

So Kaitlyn and I recently had a great conversation about a vulnerability hangover, and I would love Kaitlyn to first kind of introduce us to what is this idea of a vulnerability hangover. If you’re a resident therapist or early career clinician who’s craving A supervision space that feels real, not performative, this is for you. The Unmasked Therapist Clinical Supervision Group is where authenticity meets growth. Led by Kaitlyn Steel, LMFT, and Kim Rippy, LPC, therapist at Keystone Therapy Group, this 12 week virtual group invites residents to drop the I Have It All together mask and explore the person behind the therapist.

You’ll get to present real cases, receive honest feedback, and learn how to integrate your authentic self into your clinical work, all while meeting your Virginia Board of Counseling supervision hours. Groups are small, safe, and supportive. Learn more or join the wait list at keystonetherapygroup.com/supervision. Because the best therapy you give starts with the therapist you are. Yeah, yes, yeah. So our conversation that kind of drove it was I had had a recent experience in a group that I’m running, not with clients, but where we were actually talking about a similar topic.

I’m not 100% sure if it was this exact one, but I was giving an example and I shared something very personal from my own history and we went through it was great conversation, everybody else participated, all that stuff. And then the next day I woke up with this pit in my stomach and immediately I started overthinking. Well, not overthinking, overanalyzing. I started remembering like this person’s face when I said this, and I started thinking about how the rest of the conversation when I just really fell into my anxious thinking.

That typically comes up when I’m not feeling very centered, right? Like. So that was the first indicator for me. And what I have realized is this vulnerability hangover usually happens the next day, very similar to what you would, you know, experience with the real. Hangover. And so it doesn’t generally happen right away. It kind of sits in your body for a period of time and then shows up a little bit later once you know stuff is out of your system essentially, right? Right. And so I’ve heard this phrase before.

The Emotional Aftermath of Being Vulnerable

I don’t want to take credit for, you know, developing the OR coining the phrase. But essentially, you know, if we’re trying to kind of define what vulnerability hangover is it, what it is, is a period of time after you have shared something, whether it’s with a friend or a family member or a client or a Co worker, it doesn’t matter. But later on, after things have kind of settled down, you start to feel this feeling of crap, What did I share? What did they think about what I shared?

Why did I share that? Was that too much? When we do this with clients, the other concerns that start to come in are, Oh my gosh, should I do something unethical? Did I make it about me and not the client? Did I make the client feel like they had to take care of me? Right. All of those big things that grad school that are codes of ethics really stress like this is the bad stuff. Like if you do this like it’s so bad and so you know, when you are experiencing this with a client, that’s kind of what you’d be looking for in terms of this like, ah, crap moment like vulnerability hangover is you’re not feeling great about it. You start to analyze it usually or overanalyze it and it’s usually pretty recent.

I would say. I don’t know if you have anything to add to that, Kim, if you have other, another piece to that for yourself before we move on. But yes, I think that’s, that’s huge, right. And like you were saying with the, the aspect of it is it can happen with any interaction we have, not just with clients, like you said, like the unmasked therapist supervision group that your host you’re running right now, the fall group, that is something where in a supervision group, we have more emotional safety because it’s not that client dynamic, it’s a peer relationship. And so there’s still that more emotional safety there. But especially as the group leader, there still is a bit of a hierarchy where you have to filter more or think about it more, be more intentional with what you’re sharing, just like a therapist does with our client.

Yeah. So when that vulnerability hangover hits, it’s, it’s so important, Kaitlyn, that I, I want to point out that in the moment, it still could be right. Yes. It still can be effective right? The the vulnerability hangover is that questioning or self doubt afterwards. That doesn’t mean that the the disclosure or the sharing was wrong. It just means that your brain is then having a oh crap moment. Yes, I love that you just pointed that out. That is I think such an important part to recognize especially because we in the moment, if it is like usually if you share something in the moment and it is not appropriate

Authenticity, Self-Disclosure, and Professional Boundaries

or it is not helpful to the client or you know it does disrupt you, pretty you can generally pick up on that pretty quickly. It really disrupts, you know, the client might respond a specific way, you know those are pretty obvious. This is typically something that it is pretty appropriate, right? Like it work can be very helpful. And actually I think with that, this is a reflection or maybe not a reflection, but this is something that actually is really internal to the therapist, not necessarily a clinical problem completely right. Like there’s still I agree.

With that, I think this is actually a completely separate issue, right? I think that the vulnerability hangover is the therapist personal experience to sharing regardless of if it’s with a client, a friend, a colleague, a parent, whoever, right? That hangover is the therapist emotional experience and emotional reaction to sharing, sharing. And I think this occurs. Let’s talk about why this occurs. So Kaitlyn, you mentioned anxiety, right? Just immediately off the bat, anxiety of was that too much? Was that appropriate self doubt, maybe feeling guilty about doing that, like having that disclosure again?

Anybody who has experienced anxiety, I want to see all hands up in the room. Anybody who has experienced anxiety knows that while anxiety is there to protect us, it’s there to anticipate danger so we can react to it. It is fallible, right? Anxiety is wrong often. So just because you have those anxious thoughts questioning, should I have self disclosed that? Should I have talked about that doesn’t mean that you did it wrong, right? It’s just the emotional experience of that disclosure has created that that response or that self doubt. And so that anxiety is going to be there or might be there to jump in and question it because that level of disclosure might not be your norm.

So your brain is going, was that too much? Did I like, is that a problem? Because again, it’s not your norm. So or maybe when you shared it as a human being, you experienced an emotional reaction to that disclosure actually in the moment that was bigger than you would normally have. And that’s again, pulling more of that, like energy resources away from you to have that self disorder. Again, doesn’t mean it’s wrong. It required more of your energy resources to be able to have that interaction with your client. Yeah.

And what you just said actually really brought me to another point that I was thinking about with this is for my experience, this believe that this is, you know, something a lot of people can connect to. But when I look back at whether it’s been, you know, with a client, with supervisors, with anybody in my life, when I experience the vulnerability hangover, usually there’s one or two factors that are always

Recognizing the Need for Reassurance

present. The first one is I had a more a stronger emotional reaction than I expected. OK, so kind of like what you just mentioned. But the second thing is I didn’t get the response from the listener that I didn’t realize I needed. That makes sense. Yes. So what happened? Yeah, to our listeners. Yeah. So what happens is you’re sharing something and maybe you start to feel it in your chest.

Maybe you start to kind of notice your body heightening, right? Like you’re kind of noticing maybe you’re getting a little teary or whatever, you know happens that your body starts activating and you’re, and usually these are the points in conversation where you might say to a friend like, Oh my gosh, I don’t know why I’m crying about this. I’m fine. Like this is something in my class, right? Like maybe you’re not actually crying, but like you’re noticing a reaction, an emotional reaction that you didn’t expect to have happen. So that’s the first indicator that something’s happening here that is just kind of taking these by surprise, which automatically removes us from our own present or it removes us from the present process of what we’re doing because we’re experiencing something right?

Right. Again, you’ve already started sharing, so it’s not like you can just be like, just kidding. This is too emotional. I’m not going to like that. Just disrupts it makes it so awkward anyways. And also as therapists, as humans, especially people who fall into like people pleasing categories, we are really, really good at ignoring those signs and not noticing them in the moment, right? So that happens. Then there’s the second piece, and this part is what, once I’ve reflected on it afterwards and done the work afterwards, is where I make this connection of a wait, I didn’t realize it, but I kind of needed comfort. I needed affirmation.

I needed the listener that I was speaking to to have responded in a way that they didn’t respond. And that I think that’s the part that for me starts the questioning. Yeah. And especially if you’re thinking about it in a work setting with a client, right? Like that’s when I start to go, Oh my gosh, what did they think of it? Were they uncomfortable because I shared too much and they didn’t know what to do with it? Right. And I think it’s important here to make a distinction between when you’re saying they didn’t have the response I needed. Yes.

When we’re disclosing again, we don’t want to disclose from a place where we need something from the clients, right? You’re not saying that, but you’re saying, hey, I’m thinking

Overthinking, Shame, and Self-Awareness

this process through this client is experiencing. Yeah, let’s use, I think we used miscarriage as an example last week. Is this client experienced A miscarriage? I have experienced A miscarriage many years ago. I processed it. I’m, you know, this, this client is feeling incredibly, incredibly alienated and isolated and alone. And maybe she just needs to know that she’s not the only one who has experienced it. And the statistic of one in four pregnancies and a miscarriage doesn’t really mean anything to her right now because she needs that emotional connection with somebody who’s experienced it. I’m having all these thoughts.

I’m thinking through and going, OK, what is the likely response of a client if I share this with her? Right. Again, everything needs to be intentional. So I go, OK, so I, I believe that she will have a healthy response to me sharing this with her. So I share it with her. And then maybe in that moment, instead of feeling validated as I thought that she would after how many weeks, months, years working together, maybe she has like a, a reaction where suddenly she feels like she needs to take care of me or there’s some kind of a shift because she is.

And surely maybe it’s not like I didn’t put her in a position where she has to take care of me. Maybe her brain saw that as a life raft. And if I shift and I can take care of my therapist and I don’t have to keep talking about my trauma, right? Whatever kind of is going on that protective factor, but when that client has a response that is different than what I thought was going to happen, my emotional reaction is crazy heightens because then I’m like, oh crap.

Again, it’s oh crap, I messed up. This didn’t go the way I wanted it to. I’m beating myself up. I’m guilt tripping myself. But again, that emotional labor that I am then doing in that moment has far surpassed what the disclosure was actually calling for. And maybe then it triggered something where I thought that I was over this, but Oh no, I’m activated. So now I’m having to do a lot more work and regulating myself through that session. Yes. And I want to kind of, as we’re linking this back to our last conversation, this is part of the reason why the, you know, system of education really encourages therapists not to self disclose at all because this does so it, it is something that can really disrupt things.

I want to offer though another perspective here of the chance of a self disclosure fully rupturing the therapeutic relationship and harming your client to a point where it is not OK is very minimal. As long as you’re thinking about it ahead of time, right? As. Long as you’re recognizing and you’re staying in your lane as a therapist and you’re not creating a friendship or you know that’s a separate relationship issue boundary. But if you are disclosing with a client from again good intent that is healthy based on our ethical code in our position as a therapist, very rarely will it ’cause that fracture within the

Processing Vulnerability Through Reflection

relationship. Yeah, I’m really glad you just pointed that out because I did want to. I do want to clarify when I’m talking about that, I’m saying what if you are within healthy therapeutic boundaries and you accidentally over disclose you have a vulnerability hangover, You know, you did it trying to build rapport, you did it trying to comfort or you know, something that is clinically appropriate, but it then you realize afterwards that wasn’t what I should have done, that was probably not the right decision, right? Like that’s what I’m talking about, right? Absolutely.

And so, and again, it’s important for the therapist to take a hard look at am I? Is this a sign that maybe I am crossing boundaries, that I need to make sure I am established and I’m need to pay attention to right? Right, what do we do with it? Right, right, because it’s, it’s so the vulnerability hangover, like right, we talked about what is it? We talked about how to recognize when you’re having it. What are those kind of oh crap moments? What’s the emotional response you’re having? What do we do with it?

So for every experience, every emotional experience, the first answer is you need to reflect on it. Understand what’s coming up for you. What is that tied to? You know, reflect on your emotional experience with your clients in that moment. And with the vulnerability hangover, it’s Even so much more important because it’s not just an emotional reaction to what the client’s saying. It’s an emotional reaction to an interaction that you had with a client. It’s an aspect of your relationship with the client, not just what they’re saying, not just what they’re experiencing, but it’s something that is happening between the two of you, where the therapy room or virtual room is the catalyst for this situation. So that can create a moment where your brain is going. We were emotionally overwhelmed or drained after this experience That could create a bit like a tiny tea trauma reaction where you go.

I’m a little anxious about going into this session with this client. I don’t know what’s going to happen next. What are they going to say? I have felt so drained after those sessions. Right? We have those clients who, you know, we feel super, super drained after those sessions that you might start dreading kind of working with that client as their appointments coming up on the week. So with this, that emotional or that vulnerability hangover can create that space where you might start to avoid your client or you might start censoring yourself even more than you usually would with self disclosure.

You know, they just say like, how was your week? And you’re like, good because you’re overcompensating and you don’t understand anything because last time I got, I was wiped out emotionally. So you have to take that step back and do the work to reflect on it, learn from it. And we are humans. If you did disclose too hard, too fast for you, again, even if it was OK for the client, it might have been too much disclosure for you. That is something that you need to sit with and journal, meditate, take a walk, think about right and reflect on it because that should inform your decisions for self disclosure in the future. It shouldn’t dictate it.

Vulnerability and the Therapeutic Relationship

That doesn’t mean that you’re going to stop disclosing altogether. You don’t want to overcompensate because disclosure does add. It provides connection with your clients and that’s the foundation of therapy is that connection in that relationship. But you do need to listen to it. Yes, you need to listen to it. Like you said, get curious about it. Try to practice that non judgmental stance that you want to hold for your clients. Hold that for yourself. Get really curious about like let me look truthfully at what happened. Let me take ask myself these hard questions of do I need?

Am I crossing boundaries unintentionally? You know, is this what? And, and really ask yourself, what part of this sharing, at what point did it surprise you that it made it different, Right. Because what I was saying before is that usually, at least in my experience, when this happens, it catches me by surprise. Right. Right in the moment or maybe even afterwards. And so really asking yourself why did that catch me by surprise? For me, often times what it comes down to is how much detail I’m providing. Great.

Right. And so saying to a client again, staying on the miscarriage route, like or a conversation, yes, I’ve, I have been there. I, I’ve gone through what you’re going through. And I’m only saying this to let you know that you’re not alone. And I want to remind you my experience is not your experience. However, I do want you to know I’ve, I’ve gone through this. I know that feeling, right? Like saying that is very different from saying, yeah, I had this many at this time, this is what it was like for me. I remember the doctor, blah. Right?

Like really telling the details of it are often, at least in my experience, where you get into the really murky water. Because those details require so much like that’s what puts you back in that space, right? When we’re working with our clients, we both work from an EFT lens. So with EFT, there’s so much of this. OK, let’s think back to that, that situation, right? Especially if we’re let’s talk to your, your child, your inner child. Let’s talk to these different, you know, relationships that you’ve had or think about these scenarios or these these instances have to run your flight with these people. When we want clients to go back there, it’s not just tell us what happened, it’s what were you wearing? What seat was it?

What room were you in? Tell me about the house you were in. Tell me about what your mom was wearing in that moment, right? What the look on her face. It’s the sensations and it’s the details that create that emotional response. Because we want that emotional response with our clients because we want to help them process through it. That’s how healing happens. But we don’t want to put our details and our self back into our own trauma because again, that’s just that’s so unhealthy and that we shouldn’t be doing that with a client.

So yeah, the, the kind of that phrase like the doll is in the details, like, you know, it’s implies, it applies a little bit

Grounding and Finding Perspective

differently here, but truly like the emotional response is typically going to be more relevant or more amplified. It’s going to be more amplified when we are talking or thinking about those details. Yes. And I want to as you were talking another kind of piece of this came up because so far what we’ve been talking about has been when we just willingly disclose something. But what about when a client asks you a question that puts you in a place where you are disclosing or you know, again, that question of a client being like, how did you get through this, right. Like if they do know that you share an experience and, and you shared that clinically and it was great. And then they ask a question like that, that is also a location in the conversation where the details can start coming more unintentionally because you’re trying to respond to your client’s need.

And I, I am sorry, but I know a lot of therapists like to talk about, you know, flip it back on the client. So if a client says, where, how did you get through this? You know, instead of answering it, ask them what’s coming up for them that they want to ask that question. And there are times where I ask that, but to be totally honest, in my experience that has been a very unhelpful response because the client really is saying I need connection. I need you to hold my hand as I walk across this really scary rickety bridge. So.

This is like my just literally last week, my kiddo had a doctor’s appointment and so and I completely forgot humanness. I completely forgot that I needed that I had a client schedule that time. So I just emailed her and bumped her up to an earlier time of the day. And I, and I again, I’m a human being. So I just said, hey, I’m so sorry. I completely forgot. My kiddo has a has a doctor’s appointment in the afternoon. Are you OK with bumping to the morning? Right.

Some therapists would say, just say scheduling conflict. So I wanted to, you know, again, I’m a human. And it also helps model that for me, even as a therapist, my family comes first because I also give my clients a lot of slack and space when their family comes first. I completely expect that. And that’s a value of mine. And again, that goes back to, like, that helps communicate trust with my clients, especially since both with them are parents. So when I saw that client, you know, did she ask, is your kiddo OK?

Is everything OK? Yeah, Should I have gone into the full story of this is the follow up for like I could have and with this client, like we’re tight like again, like we’ve been meeting for many years. So like that would have been completely appropriate and it would have been fine. However, that then shifts the focus away from her on to me. And that would have been the scenario where literally as soon as I hung up that call, I would have been like, Oh my God, I should not have told her all of that just because it’s just right that I would have felt bad about those 30 seconds that I was telling her should have been about her, right?

So instead I said you, I was like, thank you so much for asking. Yes, it’s he’s OK. It’s just a follow up. Yeah.

Clinical Supervision and Support

Cool, awesome, amazing, great. And then I went. Thank you so much for asking. I really appreciate it. How was your week? I’m so happy to see you. Tell me about what’s going on. What do you need today, right? Well, it’s, it’s so, so important. Like you said, the details, you can keep the details. You can still share things with your clients to connect with them, but the, the emotional requirements that come up with sharing the details or even just filtering the details if you need to filter them. How much do I share that can all create that hangover. So notice that that hangover comes up. You take your time, you reflect on it, you process through it, and you truly, truly give your souls. Give yourself space to think about how is this hangover, in this experience, having this, how could this show up in the room with this client or with other clients, with my colleagues, with my supervisors?

How can this show up and do the work, especially with your supervisor? Yes, right. Talk to your supervisor about, hey, I disclosed this. I still do think this was healthy for the client or even I don’t think this was healthy. What do I do? And again, we’re going to have an episode very soon on those oh, crap moments with clients. What do you do with those while, you know, connecting with them, what they need a remaining authentic, but it’s so, so important to connect with your supervisor to say, hey, this was my experience.

I had this huge emotional reaction and I just felt so depleted. How do I recognize it’s going to happen? If I can, how do I process it in the moment? How do I understand how it may show up for me in the future? And you know, what do I do with it now? Yeah, yeah. And it. But I think that needs its own dedicated space, especially with how do you bring in your supervisor to help navigate that process and that relationship with that client. Because I think the supervisor does need to be in play there for that kind of like triangulated relationship between therapist slash supervisee supervisor and client.

Yes, yes. And then the last thing, well, probably not the last thing. One of the biggest things that I really want our listeners to really, really lean into in these moments is give yourself grace, give yourself forgiveness, give yourself a chance to really believe you are human. We, we don’t always do this perfectly. This is why we reflect on things, you know, kind of Kim, you were talking earlier about like the function of anxiety, the purpose of it, the purpose of the vulnerability hangover within the context of client work or other situations. Is this a warning sign?

It’s a thing of, hey, this didn’t go the way you expected. This was something you need to pay attention to so you can course correct in the future. But this does not mean that you

Closing Thoughts and Disclaimer

are horrible. It does not mean that you are a bad therapist. It does not mean that you need to report yourself to the board. You know, it does mean you have to pay attention to it. It does mean you have to be willing to ask yourself the hard questions or have your supervisor or a Co worker up here ask you those hard questions because we do have a responsibility. But you’re not bad. You’re human. You’re human. You’re human. Be authentically you. Yes, sure. That you’re just doing it in the Safeway, That you’re also taking care of yourself throughout the process.

We hope today’s conversation allowed you to reflect and gain new ideas for becoming an authentic therapist. We would love to hear how this podcast is impacting you. To learn more about us, visit keystonetherapygroup.com, where you can find information about our services for clients as well as our supervision program. Remember to subscribe for new episodes and please rate US five stars. This helps us reach new therapists like you who are learning to step into their authenticity. We’ll see you next time. This. Podcast is for educational purposes only and does not replace clinical supervision, therapy or legal advice.

Listening does not create a professional or supervisory. Relationship. Clinical work is nuanced and context specific, and clinicians are responsible for practicing within their scope and licensure requirements. If you need. Supervision or guidance please seek an appropriately licensed supervisor who can meet your. Specific needs.